record on the fox news channel. but go to gretawire.com, tell us what you think about the irs or about obama care, whatever you want. it's all yours good, night from washington. h good night >> kimberly: hello, i'm kimberly guilfoyle, dana perino and greg gutfeld and it's 5:00 in new york city. this is the 5:00. ♪ ♪ ♪ >> kimberly: one of the most powerful agencies in our government abused power by targeting americans for political believes. americans are demanding answers, both today congress tried to get them by holding the first hearing on the irs scandal. outgoing commissioner steven miller was asked to testify before the house ways and means committee. >> as acting commissioner i want to apologize on behalf of the irs for mistakes we made and poor service we provided.

>> do you believe it is illegal for employees of the irs to create lists to targeted individual groups and citizens in this country? >> i don't believe it is. >> you know the terms tea party patriots were being used and you acknowledged they were outrageous. when you were asked about this after you were briefed that was the answer i gave snus how can we conclude you mislead the committee? >> i did not. >> can you assure this committee that none of this information by was shared or given to any other federal agency? >> i would be shocked, congressman, if that happened. >> kimberly: i think they are just getting started. i would say this is the tip of the iceberg. >> eric: yesterday, we ran the soundbite of eric holder. the sound on tape montage, i don't know, i don't know. i can't say. i don't know. we did about 20 of them.

we could have done 50 of them. we got a lot of that today. he did say it was mistakes made. it was poor service is what he said. let me get this straight. you targeted conservative groups and you make them wait up to three years for approval of the tax status that you are pushing through for the liberals and you call that poor service? i would call it biased unfair targeting of conservative groups. >> kimberly: there is a lot of this going on and specific examples i find interesting. representative kevin brady had a constituent when he was talking about, a party that had tea party affiliation and applied for tax exempt status in july of 2010 and february 2012 she received an answer asking questions. three years to the day that she first filed her application is still pending. take a listen to representative

brady. >> she was visited by the f.b.i. domestic terrorism unit for personal returns and business returns were both audited by the irs. she received four f.b.i. inquiries. this is a citizen in a small woman who had never been audited by the irs. is this still america? is this government so drunk on power that it would turn its full force, it's full might to harass and intimidate and threaten an average american who only wants her voice and their voices heard? >> kimberly: doesn't sound like america, sounds like something else. >> greg: sounds like america with three k's. >> greg: going back i don't know. this clearly is the dumbest group since spinal tap. never trust a man with a perm that is over 50.

it's just weird, but they on to this information, this is the big thick. this is like benghazi. they held on to this information until the election was over. these guys are responsible for more coverups than may bell lien and the language they are using foolish mistakes were made. so the sentence removes the subject, not i made a mistake. you can't blame the invisible. obama in is a sense caspar. completely invisible and least transparent administration since the druids. >> kimberly: there doesn't seem to be any repercussions. he is still very popular. how do you explain this? >> dana: i don't to have explain it. they do. amazing there is low level employees throughout the government that seem to know anything and the people at the top know nothing. that is inexplicable.

what we learned in the hearing and from the examples that the members gave that this targeting and harassment of americans was broad, deep, it's systemic and not just new groups. that was the original spin. it's because citizens united -- no. they went back and reached back into groups like the leadership institute which is decades old and pro-life group as well was targeted for more harassment under the sale office and same types of questions. what books do you read. do you have anybody in your family that you wanted to run for office. when you look from this perspective it's terrible. and biggest group, "new york times" reports that the obama administration political appointees, officials at treasury department knew about this five months before the presidential election of 2012 and decided not to do anything about it. not to say anything about it and not to stop it. that is why after today you will

see increasing calls and legitimate calls for an independent counsel. >> kimberly: bob, you said this is numerous scandals that come forth, benghazi, a.p. and now the irs targeting these conservative groups. how do you they are going to get out. >> bob: i don't think the question is how to get out of it but how badly are you going to be injured in getting out. this is one of the issues that come you were that poses so many questions. we can talk about benghazi later. this one affects a lot of americans. americans are saying to themselves are saying it could be me. treasury department knew bit somebody made the decision to not let the president of the united states know in order to keep it away from the campaign. or if he did know, then you got a smoking gun. somebody, somewhere not just

people in cincinnati ordered this to be done. i can't believe somebody in cincinnati and said, okay, we're going to start investigating. >> eric: we know differently now. we have the names who did it. we know that steen miller knew about it. and he admitted he spoke to tim geithner about it. he can't remember what geithner said, but he told them. specifically asked you did you speak tim geithner. yes, i spoke to him. what did you say -- i don't remember. as the "new york times" points out and dana points out, yeah, they know. at least at the cabinet level. somebody talked about earlier in the week, there a ring around president obama. they are smart enough to keep that ring where they can get it to geithner and get to the cabinet. >> dana: they also got it to according to is some reports,

white house counsel and that person is in the ring. the ring around the rosy. that again is inexplicable. what do they talk about at senior staff meetings. >> greg: it's a human shield. because they are throwing all the smaller fish to congress. everybody is going to go. you are going have to put witness relocation. the irs said something in the hearing about how what would have helped is clearer rules. rules that they violated. this is essentially the same as a bank robber going into a bank, getting arrested. if only there was sign that told me this was illegal. >> bob: all the things we're talking about is people knew, people knew. my point is that the big question is who instituted it? who instigated it? it's not who knew.

i think tho keep it away from the president of united states because they thought it would hurt his campaign. who started it? and i have. >> kimberly: so the question, maybe eric holder should be removed from this situation and put in a special prosecutor to get the answers to this question because there is sufficient nexus demonstrate there is ties at least the suggestion -- some say evidence, tied to the administration. the way he has answered these questions. if there is ever a case that calls something else, i believe this is it. >> bob: the internal review by the sirs not in and of itself enough to handle the questions. you can point it all you want but it doesn't answer the fundamental question, where did the original originate. >> eric: whether the a.p. or benghazi, you see what is going on. president obama went into the

next term there was whole thing over the campaign and white house, the campaign and white house. people going back and forth, burton and axelrod. they created such a cloud. you don't know who was there when the decisions were made. this be they move on. who was there? someone was there, whether it's a campaign or the white house, somebody made these calls. it doesn't matter anymore. obama had to know. >> kimberly: i want to listen to another piece. >> bob: i don't think that he knew. >> kimberly: this is another interesting piece. this is goldberg, i want to get your reaction. what if it wasn't tea party groups or conservative groups how would it be handled? would it be taken more seriously. take a listen. >> imagine if progressive groups or black civil rights groups were going to their congressmen and senators sand saying we are

being persecuted by the irs going back two years. does anyone believe that the white house would spend two years rolling their eyes saying nothing is going on there, to believe that no one would pick up the phone and try to get to the bottom of this. >> greg: contra factual. that is the word i am banning. the garden would get 30 years. when you compare the scrutiny to the right to the scrutiny of the left. it's not rare. this smart of life. it doesn't happen with just the irs. it happens when you are college and happens when you are publishing. it happens with your values. this is how the world works. it isn't as a scandal as much as cultural war. >> bob: you are forgetting your history. during the watergate years. >> i think something has changed in the last several decades. that is because nobody spoke up.

nobody seemed to think this is wrong. you look at the union contributions from the treasury employees union to democrats is 97% of all their fund-raising went to democratic candidates to the obama campaign. they called it the irs, says it was a foolish mistake. foolish mistake is when you take $20 from your mom's purse when you really shouldn't. i think that he is liberal mind sets are baked in the cake of our civil service. how do you get it out? that is underlying collapse of confidence in the government that is happening this week. >> bob: this is absolute true story. >> eric: 25 years in business. last year the my wife gets a knock on the door. two irs agents show up in the

car. typical thing you always fear. they show her and i.d. and we need to speak to your husband as soon as possible. she calls me up crying. this is an example of the using the irs fear tactics, scaring the bejesus that never have done anything wrong in taxes. it has to stop. i still contend it's because of my conservative beliefs. >> bob: i think you need to check your taxes. >> greg: maybe i owe taxes. >> kimberly: just imagine this is only to get better because ahead on the five, an irs official in charge of targeting officials is same person in charge of obamacare. we'll try to tell you everything about her.

facebook free fall, go to facebook and post it on our page if you have a question. we will answer some of them. keep it here. ♪ ♪ ♪

♪ ♪ ♪ going to be heartache tonight ♪ ♪ heartache tonight i know ♪ going to be heartache tonight >> eric: under the category you can't make this stuff up the obama administration has done something so stupid it's beyond belief. that woman, sara ingraham was head of group that admitted to

blocking conservative groups. that same woman just got a promotion from the obama administration. she is now in charge of administering obamacare. translation, we couldn't trust you of handling our money so we're going to make you in charge of handling health issues. this could be deadly. >> i want to have a life like this $103,000 and a bonus. where can i sign up for this. do a bad job, target americans and then you get a reward. you get to run obamacare and you get money extra for it. this is about as absurd as susan rice becoming the head of national security advisor? [ laughter ] >> eric: show he biased against conservatives prove to me they

won't do the same thing in obamacare. >> bob: i would be surprised if this woman has the job later on. if i were in a position to do so given the story and given the fact she was overseeing this issue it would raise so many questions about obamacare it's probably better to put other someplace else. >> eric: someplace else or let her go. good for you. >> dana: i don't think it's about her personally but institution the irs will not be trusted to administer obamacare fairly. they are operating from such a credibility deficit, it's impossible for them to get them out of it. i hope they use the opportunity, never let a crisis go to waste, fundamental tax reform could solve a lot of this in the long run. there is a short and medium and long term problem. irs is going to have to do a wholesale name change, sort of

like philip morris came up with new name that stays out of the news for the most part of the irs, people do not trust it. taking care of your most personal details, it's not going to work. >> eric: you are smiling. >> greg: the irs in charge of obamacare, like a junkie running a pharmacy. what it really is it's like the tsa. tsa invades you at most vulnerable stated. you are at the mercy of these entities, the irs in a way is like the tsa guilty of profiling. this persecution is more pernicious. they violent you at the -- violate you at healthcare. liberals don't violate us at bedroom and then crawl up your ass. >> you are terrible. >> remember this, targeting

conservative groups. $179,000 that is salary plus bonus. 2010, $200,000. 2012, $203,000. salary plus $103,000 in bonuses. >> this woman should go. >> if she were in the private sector she would be getting paid for the responsibility three times that. >> bob: you point out about people in government. senior executives, she may not be very good one but you can't keep them unless you pay a decent salary. >> eric: she was breaking the rules. >> let's give they are her something. let her take the money and leave. either do a good job or leave. >> they didn't know anything about it. it was employees in cincinnati that dreamed this up. it's not true. and career civil ser vantsd are

going to be where they are going to be. i think there is a serious problem with pushing obamacare on the american people, having the irs shall in charge of it. being at the helm when the irs goes in scandal mode and expect they are going to implement obamacare? that is political problem that goes to the white house. >> bob: you made a point. if there ever was a time for a catalyst for tax reform it is now. now you have a reason because of the various loopholes to say okay, let's get serious about tax reform. >> i like flat tax. >> i like any other tax than what wee going. >> greg: did anybody check why she got the bonuses. why she got the money. according if you don't make any mistakes. in government you are paid more if you are competent. you get paid the same if you are incompetent but if you do a little -- if you don't screw up. you actually get a bonus.

the reason why that is the case, it's not the government's money. it's your money. because it's your money they can spend it any way they like. >> eric: i believe it is true. i think the bonuses had to be approved by the white house. >> bob: bring this point back. it was big drain of high management people in the last 20 years. one way to keep them is form a senior executive service. we have very good senior executives in the government. >> eric: administration officials are finally admitted they bungled the response in benghazi. new report is coming up. ♪ not ♪ ♪

♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪

>> dana: the part of the song we needed for the contest. anyway, we're not liars we're just idiots. that quote. new narrative on benghazi according to cbs news. reporter michelle atkinson spoke to number of officials and they acknowledged a slew of mistakes and ramping down the response team that could have been sent on the night of the attack and cited their failure to release the talking points when congress asked for it and list goes on. one official is saying, republicans are liars or idiots. it's close to us being idiots. he doesn't say on the record. it remeinz from on background, kimberly, that the president's policy was to lead from behind. your thoughts on this? >> kimberly: i lead from behind because that is my best side.

[ laughter ] >> bob: that begs a question. >> dana: kimberly. it's been quite a week. you are making a choice of calling your white house. you say liars or idiots or more close to being idiots. >> we're good at getting away with things. poor rice, hurt her career something that is going to have senate confirmation. what i will say is this. if you are part of the club, even if you screw up and take the talking points, and tow the line. they will be rewards and won't abandon you. >> jeik holder and reib. one of the things i think their strategy was focus on the talking points. we were idiots. we messed up. but you get closer to finding

who pushed the video because we are finding hou out who did not allow for the team to go to tripoli or into libya. do you think they get out of this weekend and out of their magic box. >> greg: no, i'm skeptical of people that are saying, no offense bob, this isn't a big scandal like irs. i think that is wishful thinking. i think it's a big deal. scandals are played down by making them more complex. by adding new variables and making them all equal when in fact some of them aren't. one variable and who pushed the video. if you did a hearing, that just focused on that, would you find the answers to all those other questions. rice, did you bring up --, no, go ahead. >> dana: ambassador rice was asked to do the sunday talk shows and she the one that said

it was youtube video and the mission tri-and all the days before. it was inexplicable why the youtube video was there. she was talking about being secretary of state. i don't think she was ever really considered. now they continue to float the idea of her taking charge of the national security council where you have to be a fair and balanced person of trust. >> greg: what kind of dirt does she have? that hearing that she was at that. was balony. imagine what happens on her watch like in iran, she will blame it on a flock of seagulls. >> bob: being in government being in government i never heard themselves call themselves idiots. and we were. [ laughter ] >> bob: the video, the c.i.a.

said they initially reported they had warned everybody about cairo and causing trouble in cairo. cairo demonstrations. >> eric: finish the point. >> dana: i want to get eric's point. >> eric: darrell issa is going subpoena ambassador pickering, thomas pick certifying going to have to testify on may 23rd. voluntarily or not he will get subpoenaed sheewlt question he needs. honestly at this point i don't care, all that matters is obama's legacy. that is kind of politics. i care about the time line of life. they wanted to go but i have to pointed this out. at 10:05 there were emails sent from benghazi, u.s. mission under attack. that is 1:00 a.m. in the morning. ambassador stevens is dead in

the hospital with one other. at 4:00 a.m., two more died. whoever ambassador pickering tells us stand down and don't send help from tipoli or italy or wherever, that person needs to testify as to why they did that. >> dana: one other question as we leave here. we're talking about the irs, what did the white house know in terms of trying to protect the president in his reelection effort. was that consideration? that the is nub of who pushed the video is very important. >> bob: who pushed the video is david petraeus. >> dana: no he didn't. we can't be arguing back. >> eric: he was uncomfortable with the changes in the video. can i pointed out that is very important. >> bob: what you said is new and if it turns out to be the case where the campaign had something

to do, called the standdown order, you are talking whole new ballgame. >> bob: it's inapplicable to me. >> dana: so the contest when you hear the song. what my theme was, you will hear the money song. that was fun. directly ahead, what does bob woodward think about comparing it to watergate. and we'll be reading your questions. log on to facebook and ask us anything you would like. stay with us. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ good god almighty let's get e somebody ♪

♪ ♪ ♪

>> gregg: jay carney begin his wednesday briefing with a joking montage of facial contortions he made during tuesday's hearing. it's the deep love between the media and white house to remind each other they are still in love. will it work? does he need it. watch piers morgan go flacid when faced with jay. >> how are you going to move on now and restore faith that some americans have lost that week in your openness and honesty? >> i'm not sure, again you are concocting scandals that don't exist especially with regards to the benghazi affair that was contrived by republicans and has fallen apart this week. >> you probably have been the busiest man in washington this week. if that i genuinely appreciate the time to talk to us tonight.

>> i was happy to do it. >> greg: i haven't seen a follow-up question since paper and plastic. again, we're witnessing a media that lost the muscle it once had during a adversarial relationship with the white house. now, they have gone soft person from pillsbury. here is on morning joe. >> i have to go back to 40 years to watergate when nixon put out edited transcripts and personally went through them. let's not tell this. let's not show this. i would not dismiss benghazi. it's a very serious issue. as people keep saying, four people were killed. >> greg: excuse me bob.

glad you were awake. so woodward compares it to watergate. that is direct shot at modern media. that is like willie mays showing up at batting practice and say you are suck. the president was right that there is no there. media has to wonder why the only entity that they care about is fox news. for a non-fox reporter you are a pushover. obama can have you any time he likes. he is about to like you now. be sure and wear that nighty he likes so much and don't talk because he hates that. [ laughter ] >> bob: bob wood wider, name. >> greg: you should love him. it wasn't for him there would be no carter. i mean, yes, he helped bring down nixon. >> bob: i see you make that

connection. bob woodward has a history of writing books that are somewhat questionable about the sources. >> greg: when woodward compares to it watergate, which is his baby, that is what made all president's men. >> kimberly: bob is not a fan of the man. but this is book in the works. it's significant. if you look at the gallon up polls, the people do care and along with the irs scandal. so think this is something this administration should be genuinely ashamed of. the problem is they act like little brats. it's never their responsibility. >> greg: good answer. i'm glad you were paying attention. when a press secretary tries to be self-did he present indicating does it work. >> dana: i think like on day like tuesday it was probe not the best move. you have to have a lot of

goodwill to built up. so you can be funny but maybe that wasn't the best time. >> greg: eric, when she is joking around the it is press, he is saying hey, be nice to me? >> eric: when they try to be funny they aren't funny. that was failed and amid three scandals. jay, come on my show. i would love to talk to you one-on-one interview. couple minutes and clear the air. ask you a couple of questions that piers didn't ask you. >> dana: with an invitation like that. didn't you talk to him on the phone. >> eric: how bad can it be. >> greg: bob has a stack of your questions culled from our facebook page. facebook.com/the five fnc. people still go to facebook? who are the most popular women on the web. dana has one name that will blow

your mind. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ you (horn blowing)

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>> bob: time now to answer some of your questions that were submitted on our facebook page. [ laughter ] >> i want to thank everyone. i have the questions right here. eric, where did you get that middle copy of the constitution where i can get one. >> eric: cato institute. >> bob: do you have any interest in becoming the first female president? >> i do not. president of the fan club? >> greg: that is the problem with america. you should run for president and instead you are doing media where you should be out there. >> kimberly:. >> dana: i'm getting my voice had heard. >> bob: this is for me. when are you going to settle down and get married.

the answer is never. >> greg: that is what is wrong with america. >> eric: we only have a couple second to talk about each one. i saw casserrole and bob -- >> would you get married again? >> no. >> bob: i would live in shame, i would not be the values that greg. this is for you. why? [ laughter ] >> my answer is why not? >> good answer. >> there you go. >> all right. kim, do you like new york city or san francisco? >> nice question, thank you very much. well, i now prefer new york city because i live here. it's my home and my little boy

is in new york city. >> none of your ex-husbands are there. >> no, one is here. east coast, west coast. >> one more besides, isn't there? >> no. can you pretend that was my question. how many husband have you had? >> when you were younger and if so, which changed you to -- what changed you to conservative? >> i think when i was younger, i especially remember in college my freshman year i took this philosophy class and i came home at thanksgiving and said i wanted to be a buddhist. i've grown up in the lutheran church. my dad wasn't too happy about that thinking. but i think it's because i'm such a compassionate person and i melded that to be a compassionate conservative. >> that's you. you were born a liberal and as you're growing up, becoming conservative. >> no, i'm not. i said this before, i was a liberal, but i became a conservative by being around

liberals and became libertarian by being around conservatives. >> if you're liberal, you've got a chance, yeah. but married liberal. >> but i'm conservatives. >> there is an old line that says if you're not liberal when you're 20, you have no heart. if you're not a conservative when you're 40, you got no brain. i'm still a liberal. that explains it. >> up next, one more thing.

that facebook segment was kind of fun. greg? >> this is a great story. there was a home invasion in houston and the attackers forced the victim into a closet. a gun closet. [ laughter ] so he came out and shot him. anyway, this is the neighbor talking about it. >> guess what? owner had a gun. and he did exactly what he was

supposed to do with the gun. that's what they're made for. protect his home. >> so the moral to the story? have a gun closet. inside the closet, have a gun. when an attacker comes after you, say, hey, don't put me in this closet. >> i'm scared of closets. >> i'm scared of closets. >> have it marked as something else. have not a gun closet written on it. [ laughter ] >> yeah. that's clever helpful hint on friday afternoon. i learned something interesting from abc news.com. they compiled the 50 most popular women on the web. this is per google searches. very interesting. for example, four out of the top five, only have one name. but there is one interesting one. let me read them, lady gaga, keisha, madonna, beyonce, found out she's pregnanters. rihanna, britney spears and justin bieber. this is the most popular women on the web.

if you review the searches, it comes upith, yeah. that guy. >> that's bob's friend. >> okay, go ahead. >> this morning i run into my very good friend trace adkins. look at the picture, who is a huge fan of "the five," i'm a huge fan of trace adkins. he says, tell kimberly guilfoyle i said hi. sunday night trace will be on the live final d of "celebrity apprentice," am sunday night, i'm going to go to this thing. it will be fantastic, he's up against penn gillette. i'm going to do it right here. team trace. >> there you go. i'm going to answer another question. did i ever contact martha stewart for a date? the answer is no, i didn't, because i was in no mood to go antique, which she likes to do, or go to museums, which she likes to do, or to see as many flower patterns as i saw in the '60s when i was under the influence.

so anyway, i think martha and i have one thing in common of the we shared prisons. but outside of that, she'll find somebody else. >> is that true? >> no, i'm only kidding. i was in jail, but not prison. >> which there is a difference. >> okay. so mine is charming. i love this story. this is sam bronson, junior. he is the university of memphis' bat boy. he's been there for 55 years as the team's bat boy. they love him. they said he's everything that his innocence and pure. that's eddie cantler. been the athletic trainer for 35 years. they call him an icon. >> he's 100? >> what? >> something about 100th birthday. >> i think it was the school anniversary. >> no, no. the 55th year as a bat boy. it's sweet story. >> memphis is a great city. >> i want to put my vote for penn gillette.

>> you got it, my man! let's bet dinner. >> team trace. >> i love trace adkins. >> i don't care. >> that's it for "the five." thanks for welcome to "red eye." it is like muppets take manhattan if by manhattan you mean my clothes off. let's go to andy levy for a pre game report. andy? stop shaking your head. you know you like. it what's coming up on tonight's show? >> did president obama personally direct the irs to target the tea party and other conservative groups? probably not. we will investigate if she should be impeached anyway. and the latest on the justice department seizing phone records and why it could mean impeachment for president obama. and pen gillette talks about being a finalist on "seb bra tee apprentice --" celebrity apprentice". >> your work